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When my mind says write, I write.

My brain is telling me to write more. So I will. My immediate instinct is to apologize to all of you for this... but a very recent phone conversation convinces me that I shouldn't apologize for my thoughts. So there you go.

I have a problem with orgies.

By orgies I do not mean a large group of close intimate friends finding themselves in a situation where clothes are lost and sexual things happen. I have been in many of those, and I enjoy them incredibly much.

I mean orgies where you don't know the participants at all, where it is clearly all about the sex, and if you get the person's name, bonus points for you.

Some people reading this will be surprised by that statement. I have probably said several times that the orgy described above is one of my consistent fantasies. And it is on paper.

My problem is when I know I will see some of these people in the orgy again. Or if I've seen them before. Then I'm fucked... and not in the way I want to be.

In my youth, I used to do a lot of anonymous sex. Gay male sex. I sucked a lot of dick in 2 years. I used to go to the gay baths, to the seedy after hours sex clubs... my favorite situation was in one club, where I would be in a dark, tight room that had a floor, ceiling, walls of nothing but poured concrete. You could not move without touching a man, you could not breathe without touching a man, and not a word was spoken in the entire room. All fucking night. All you could hear was slurps, groans, moans, growls, and breaths.

It was wonderful.

It was wonderful because I could do whatever the fuck I wanted, and not give a flying fuck about what anyone else thought of me. I could suck as much as I wanted, and stop precisely when I wanted, without giving a fuck if the person who I was sucking was finished, or satisfied, or even happy. Because all he had to do was turn 20 degrees and there was someone else. They weren't my responsibility.

When it comes to people who I know, or might know, or have a reason to actually give a damn about, I need intimacy. I can't have the anonymous sex, so I need something else. Some desire, some wanting, some romance in matter of speaking. But do I really want that? No... what I really want is to do what I want. To reach out and partake, and be as nasty and vile and uninhibited as I want to be.

But at an orgy, I can't do that. I feel the pressure of judgment, the fear that someone will say things about what I did. I have the fear of rejection, real people finding me unattractive and not wanting me. In the sex clubs, men were cattle... if one turned there nose up at me, I wouldn't care because there were five others who didn't care just as long as my mouth was warm and wet. At a sex party, that's not the case. People will gravitate towards who they find attractive, and you are putting yourself at risk of being turned down when you make an approach.

There are orgies that are open to me. People who I love and like and respect go to them. I want to go with them and enjoy what they are enjoying. I went once. And I stood there like a wallflower - I was that dorky kid at the high school prom without a date. I was afraid to approach anyone because I felt unattractive. I felt like I was invading a space that was not meant for me.

I don't have any of these hang-ups when it comes to a SM event. There, I can walk in and flirt and seduce and have the time of my life. I don't fear rejection. I don't fear going up to a complete stranger and chatting them up and eventually going to play with them. It's when you make sex the primary object, as opposed to a SM scene. That is where I trip up.

I wonder if I'll get over this.


( 28 comments — Leave a comment )
May. 2nd, 2007 02:29 am (UTC)
This sounds similar to one of the tapes which runs in my head. I'm not a one night stand either. Mostly because of negative self talk, but I'm not wired that way. I need a connection of some sort. I can do the multiple person thing, but it's something that happens because just the right mix of the right people are there...I'm comfortable...the planets are in align. I've found myself more than once standing to the side of a scene like this where I picked up panties and handed out condoms and crops. Ever the facilitator.

Though again, one of my most elaborate fantasies includes an orgy. Go figure
May. 2nd, 2007 02:45 am (UTC)
First I want to agree with your other posters, don't apologize. Please. This was absolutely fascinating. I am, unsurprisingly, particularly interested in the bits that hit home for me. Specifically, being more comfortable with your "attraction quotient" for scene things than sex things. I don't have anything terribly productive to say, other than that, because my brain is in the melty place, but I wanted to post support.
May. 2nd, 2007 02:47 am (UTC)
I've rarely heard someone so eloquently describe the desire to be unimportant.
May. 2nd, 2007 02:59 am (UTC)
No. That's not it at all. I don't want to be unimportant - but I don't want to be judged. I want to feel attractive, and not feel rejected. Of course, that is never a guarantee in most of the universe - my days in the lands of anonymity offered me that though.

Or maybe, dare I say it, I want to feel important. I feel important at SM events. I don't at orgies.
May. 2nd, 2007 04:07 am (UTC)
In my experience, people only go unjudged when they're unimportant.

It sounds like you want a space where people negotiate sex as they would negotiate a scene, and look for a sex partner as they would look for a scene partner. None of that is about not being judged; when you're choosing someone out of a crowd to talk to, and talking to them to find out whether you want to play with them, there's plenty of judging going on. Of course you want to be judged in areas in which you feel strong and confident, like your ability to wield a crop or command someone's attention, and not in areas where you feel less confident, like your looks.

There is freedom and safety in being unimportant, though, freedom from being judged for anything at all, and that's what it seemed to me you were describing when you wrote about that dark concrete room. In that space, if I'm understanding correctly, you, as a person, were unimportant, just as the other people there were unimportant to you. Even your hard-earned skills were unimportant. The experience was there to be experienced, as it happened, and not something to be developed or turned to your advantage the way you would do at a playparty, where you might single out someone you wanted to play with or dress in a way that would attract the attention of a particular sort of person.

I suspect that the more comfortable you feel in your own skin, the more comfortable you will be in spaces where books are judged overtly by covers.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:02 am (UTC)
Im glad you posted this. It gives people a bit of insight about you that they may not have ever had. Plus, I enjoy reading your posts, especially when theyre introspective. :)
May. 2nd, 2007 03:09 am (UTC)
I think you are the sexiest man alive.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:34 am (UTC)
Ah... and you make me feel like it.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:19 am (UTC)
I can't imagine that gay men at orgies will be that much different than gay men in sex clubs. Are you referring to a fear of sexual rejection by women?

May. 2nd, 2007 03:38 am (UTC)
No, it's not gender based. It's the environment.

For example, at the gay male sex clubs, no problem. But at the gay baths, big time problems. There, again, no words, and they are just judging the book by its cover. I had a much more difficult time getting action there. Because all I had to offer was my book cover, versus the sex club, where sight almost went unnoticed.

At the orgies, I have found that your first impression is your book cover, and that's about it. Same problems for me.

Versus again, a SM event, where there are many more variables. Conversation, negotiation, pairing of interests, chemistry, skill. Many more factors that work in my favor.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:42 am (UTC)
The dynamic at that party is interesting.

If I had been at that party, I would've dragged you into the back bedroom, and eaten you up.

Can you lock this post, now that that I've publicy declared I would ravish you? ;-D
May. 2nd, 2007 03:43 am (UTC)
No, but you can say to me when you're going to a party.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:46 am (UTC)
You got it.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:45 am (UTC)
First of, I'm glad I got to meet you. That's when you became a real person to me. And not the fantasy of soo many women who love your skills with toys, sex and absolutly charming personality.
By "real person", I mean someone that I consider to be worthy of my respect, and friendship. I have met many more "Real people" in the sm community than I have in other communitys/groups.
Excellent insight, I'm very glad you shared.
I have felt many times, that if I go to an event, no one will find me attractive, or even want to flirt with me much less play with me.
Being turned down is the biggest ego killer, and I have been turned down so much that now, if I'm not chased or given a direct clue, I remain clueless and assume no one was interested, but it's better because at least I was not told "no".
This is why at an sm event, I cannot approach anyone, I can talk and get to know poeple a bit, but hell if I can seduce someone or talk them into a scene. It wasn't until this lil red headed tart who was flashing her pussy at me, that I got the nerve to huntr again.
When I met you, I could see your power was in sm, your place was in "the scene".
Even at frolicon, at first I felt like the interloper hng, (except my date was the fucking debutant prom queen, lucky ass me!)
ANyway, great insight, and I think you may have had a low power moment in that environment, who knows, maybe your perfect environment has changed, either way, hope to see and chill with you and that Dahling girl of yours again soon.
May. 2nd, 2007 11:00 am (UTC)
Life Lesson 463

vanilla or BDSM...

IF a woman is flashing her pussy specifically at you, it's appropriate to step to her.
May. 2nd, 2007 02:11 pm (UTC)
Re: Life Lesson 463
Unless I'm at Talladega and she looks all of 18, lol
And that did happen.
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(Deleted comment)
May. 2nd, 2007 04:12 pm (UTC)
I think of you as reserved around new people, but not shy, where I see boymeat as the magnet. I think both of you are very capable at getting what you want. But that is my perception (and a very good one too!)

I like your motto, but I get turned down a lot (except from feyrie whioh is all that counts), and I know it affects my ego (and I know it should not). It was amazing to see that boymeat has moments like that as well. Getting to know someone and their innards does bring you closer.
May. 3rd, 2007 08:43 pm (UTC)
I’ve had a similar experience .. finding out long after it’s “too late” that there was unexplored interest. It’s happened to me as long as I can remember – feeling just sort of clueless as to other people’s interest. I wasn’t clueless about them as people; I’d have a great time hanging out with someone, only to find out months later that they thought we were having great dates that just never led anywhere. I never knew they were dates!

For me though, I think it’s been less of a fear of rejection though, and just a hesitancy or lack of desire to shift my mindset. I don’t see the subtle clues… because I’m simply not looking for them.

When it comes to play…I’m half and half… when I ask someone to play (as in, when I approach a top for a scene) I’m generally a bit nervous about rejection (if it’s someone I’ve never played with). However when I’ve offered to play with someone (as in, when I’ve approached a bottom for a scene) I feel far less nervous – as though I’m far less invested in their response.
May. 2nd, 2007 03:48 am (UTC)
Wow... just wow... I can SOOOOOOOOOOO relate to everything youve said in this post only you put it so much more eloquently than I ever could. Thank you for sharing this. On a personal level I need that intimacy with SM stuff too and its what keeps me from sceneing when I normally would not so much romance per say but a click a connection.

Ive watched you scene though and even when you do I notice a level of connection and yes even intimacy beyond the norm Its a pleasure to watch.

Thanks again for sharing this.
May. 2nd, 2007 04:07 am (UTC)
Interesting. I often have shyness at orgies, but not always, and one important thing I’ve picked up from orgies is that “no thanks” does not mean rejection of me as a valuable person. Actually, it’s been very important for me to hear “no” for two reasons: One is that when I hear “no” and it doesn’t affect my relationship with the person, it makes it clear that “no, thanks” is not a judgement of me as a person, it’s just a statement of what the person wants (and doesn’t) from me. And the other one is that it makes it clear that people can say no, and that approaching somebody for sex is not an imposition; it makes it clear that I can trust a “yes” and don’t have to second-guess people. It relieves me of responsibility for what other people want. (Actually, that particular dynamic — I’m responsible for asking politely for what I want, and other people are responsible for saying no to anything they’re not comfortable with — is one of the nicest ways in which orgies differ from the “real world”.)

Of course, hearing “yes” has a certain appeal, too.

May. 2nd, 2007 05:32 am (UTC)
What exactly do you think you need to get over?
Why do you feel the need to get over it?

~ pug
May. 2nd, 2007 11:18 am (UTC)
I think after reading this 5 times to see if I'm missing something the same question pops into my head.....

Why you you feel the need to get over your feelings about orgies?
Where does it say that you have to be comfortable and willing in every sexual situation under the sun?

Knowing that you have trepidations makes you more human and real in my eyes and I love that.

Thank You for sharing Sir
May. 2nd, 2007 11:38 am (UTC)
I can relate to alot of that (not the gay male sex part, the awkwardness of orgies/sex parties part) - and what I have found is that it comes down to the situation and expectations...especially when tied to a fantasy. I think when someone looks for and expects something to be a certain way, it always ends up disappointing. However, if you can just leave your mind open to whatever happens, happens, you'll be more relaxed. Our best experiences is when we went and didn't expect anything. Lately, our best experiences are with people we do have a connection with.

There is nothing wrong with going to an orgy, not feeling the vibe, and just watching, or leaving. There have even been cases where we have gone, and one of us enjoyed it, and the other sat it out. When its right it will happen - you can't "make" it happen.

Even if you are Boymeat.

- K

P.S. E-mail me if you want try something a little different coming up soon.
May. 2nd, 2007 01:57 pm (UTC)
Maybe there is a reason for the faltering upon such occassions.

Maybe the reason is a good one.

Maybe your instinct is speaking to you as to the matter of orgies.

Maybe you should listen.

Might I also say...I can relate!

May. 2nd, 2007 02:03 pm (UTC)
I understand *exactly* what you mean. The anonymity of places like that club gives you enough distance from what you are doing that you can let go in a way that you can't when you're closer to what's happening.

I think really the key thing might be the "people you know" part. Unlike the men at the clubs, you feel something for them. If you're like me, maybe you're afraid that when the lustful animal in you comes out, it won't live up to the responsibility of those feelings.
May. 2nd, 2007 06:51 pm (UTC)
you just summed up (WAY better then i have!) a lot of the reasons behind my own reluctence to go to an orgy - as well as the "why don't i have those problems at SM events" Food for thought - thanks!
May. 2nd, 2007 07:26 pm (UTC)
Unless you seek to change yourself...What is there to get over and why are you apologizing?

Sure your friends are going and having a great time. But so what? It isn't your cup of tea.

True friends will understand that it doesn't work for you.
May. 2nd, 2007 08:35 pm (UTC)
Confidence, or lack of, really does effect our enjoyment of a social event. I suspect we are all in our own way fearful of rejection. I sure know I am. Funny though, we know everyone feels this way, but they never seem to look it, do they?

Thanks for the posts...
( 28 comments — Leave a comment )